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04-10-2008, 06:59 PM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Aremis
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Total SGC$: 5,537.58 | The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' As the furore continues over rape victims having their compensation cut because they'd been drinking before the attack, one woman gives her own deeply personal account of a harrowing sexual assault More than 20 years have elapsed since I drank too much at a party and woke to find a stranger attempting to rape me, but the sensations are seared into my memory. The weight of him pinning me down, the smell of his smoky breath, the jolt of nausea as I registered where his hands were. Recently there has been a justified outcry over the revelation that rape victims have had their compensation cut by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority, because they had been drinking before the attack. Officials at the CICA told women that their consumption of alcohol was a 'contributing factor' in their assault. In the past year alone, at least 14 rape victims have had their standard taxpayer-funded payouts of £11,000 reduced by as much as a quarter because they were deemed to have been drunk, and presumably 'asking for it'. Back in 1985 I was 18 years of age and in my first year at university in the North of England. I wasn't the most streetwise of teenagers and had no head for alcohol; I must have been the only student in the country whose entire freshers' week consumption amounted to a single gin and tonic. While I talked a good game and hung out in the student bar with the best of them, I also attended mass regularly like a good Catholic girl should, and although I had a boyfriend, I hadn't slept with him or anyone else, ever. One weekend I travelled down to London by coach to visit a friend. She knew of a house party, and on the Saturday night, three of us opened a bottle of wine at her flat, and then headed off. By the time we arrived, I was giggly and a little unsteady after my two glasses of warm Italian fizz. I dimly recall dancing and chatting, drinking from a flimsy plastic cup filled with wine, then suddenly finding myself lolling about and being unable to stand. My friend, whom I've known since I was seven, gently led me and her younger sister also the worse for a surfeit of Lambrusco up to one of the bedrooms, and laid each of us on a bed covered in a layer of coats. Later, she said she'd spoken to a few young guys hanging about outside the bathroom. By unlikely coincidence, they came from a market town just 12 miles from the hamlet where we'd grown up. They'd all joked about grim nights spent at the local disco. It was like she knew them. They were from home. They seemed OK. I've no idea how long I slept, but piecing events together afterwards, it can't have been more than 20 minutes. I woke struggling for breath, hot and confused because a dead weight was bearing down on me, far heavier than a few anoraks, and I was unable to move my lower body or legs. Then, through the blur of alcohol, I realised that something unspeakably awful, something almost beyond my comprehension was happening. A man I'd never seen before was on top of me, pressing against me. With terrible clarity I focused on what he was doing. His hands were inside my knickers. Amid my revulsion, some primitive self-preservation instinct kicked in. A pulse of fight-or-flight adrenalin jerked through my system and I somehow found the strength to rear up, screaming, hitting out, thrashing my legs. Shocked, he jumped off and angrily tried to restrain me, pushing me down again. I threw myself at him in terror-fuelled rage, trying to scratch him, hurt him, but my flimsy blows hit the wall repeatedly, until my nail beds were bleeding. By now it was clear that he wasn't going to be able to keep me quiet or overpower me, so instead he lifted me up I weighed less than eight stone, so it wasn't difficult and carried me out on to the landing. Then he hoisted me as high as he could and threw me down the stairs. Because he was bigger and stronger. Because I wouldn't let him rape me. The other party-goers watched aghast as I tumbled like a rag doll on to the furniture that had been piled in the hallway below to make room for a dance floor in the sitting room. As they rushed to disentangle me from the upturned three-piece suite, my attacker must have fled through the back garden. God knows how I wasn't killed or injured by the force of my fall. I sustained a few minor cuts and terrible bruising to my back and legs that hurt for weeks, but I can only assume that I was saved by the fact that my body was limp and floppy from the aftereffects of the alcohol. As I sat on the doorstep, sobbing, no one suggested calling the police. Or they did, but only to say there was no point calling them as I was drunk. But by then I was stone-cold sober, and acutely aware that the general consensus was that I had brought any misfortune on myself and was at least partly to blame. I must have led him on, flirted, asked for it. Even if I was comatose, as I claimed, by being drunk I had made myself de facto available come on, I'd been lying on a bed, hadn't I? The next evening I took the bus back north, and stayed in my room for a fortnight. My boyfriend, outraged on my behalf, offered what support he could. Someone dropped by with a dog-eared copy of The Female Eunuch. My lecturers mortified middle-aged men were awkwardly understanding and booked me a session with a student counsellor. Yes, a terrible thing had happened, she said, but tell me about your relationship with your mother. I never went back. But I did move on, and these days I feel more grateful for what didn't happen than anything else. I can't begin to imagine how it must actually feel to be raped. My story stands scant comparison with the horrific ordeals endured by many too many women, ordeals that may have been made worse by their treatment at the hands of the CICA. I spent years racked with guilt not just ordinary guilt, but copper-bottomed Catholic guilt before realising that it's not a crime to get drunk, but it is a crime to commit or try to commit rape. Yes, I was young and silly. I was out cold and incapable. But there's a world of difference between being incapable and being culpable. Source: You Mag, UK., September 27, 2008
Comments:
So members, what do you think of this account of a rape victim? Is she culpable? Somehow, I think it would be rather difficult to draw the line here. Logic may say that one should know one's own alcohol limits but yet the drink at the other end is just way too tempting for some.
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04-10-2008, 07:05 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | flyinghigh;
Posts: 481
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Total SGC$: 454.40 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' abit poor thing,.. but.. oh well..
cannot drink so much shouldnt continue..
or should i say.. she shouldnt drink at all..
hmmm
idk.. haiss
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04-10-2008, 07:08 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | ☆Work Hard ☆ Play Hard☆
Posts: 934
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Total SGC$: 2,219.12 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' How about those car/motorcycle accidents caused by drunk drivers? Should we blame the alcohol or the driver?
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04-10-2008, 07:15 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | Outstanding
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Total SGC$: 3,991.87 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' blame god for making evil men, blame human for making alcohol and vehicles, n so on |
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04-10-2008, 07:22 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | ☆Work Hard ☆ Play Hard☆
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Total SGC$: 2,219.12 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' Quote:
Originally Posted by Arakai blame god for making evil men, blame human for making alcohol and vehicles, n so on |  why god?i thought evil men was created by Satan?
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04-10-2008, 07:35 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | เพื่น ดูมัส
Posts: 13,162
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Total SGC$: 21,816.98 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' Being intoxicated is just being an excuse. Being intoxicated does not mean that the gal ask for it. Even if she dressed herself sexily, she does not deserved to be raped.
As for drink drivers, they should know its against the law. They should be jailed if they injured, mauled or killed someone and if they themselves are killed in an accident bcos of being intoxicated at the wheel, they have no one to blame but themselves!
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สุด น่า รัก |
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04-10-2008, 10:53 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Experienced SGClubber
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Total SGC$: 4,725.72 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' To have that compensation cut is a step back to the stone age .... getting drunk does not equals to invitation for rape . OMG , this is absurb, outrageous and unacceptable .  |
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05-10-2008, 10:26 AM
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#8 (permalink)
| | /B/enign /B/elligerent
Posts: 7,636
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Total SGC$: 14,199.92 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' Quote:
Originally Posted by newcomer  why god?i thought evil men was created by Satan? | And God created Satan, understand?
Anyway, the blame should be shared by the victim and the rapist, the latter for being a rapist and the former for letting her guard down by getting piss drunk.
If we have campaigns against drunk driving by encouraging personal responsibility for the safety of other road users, why can't we apply the same logic on people taking responsibility for themselves and not become vulnerable to sexual assault by not being so damn drunk in the first place?
Remember people, they choose to drink, they should know where their limits are and not push it till the point where you can keel over and let anyone handle you as they like.
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05-10-2008, 06:07 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Aremis
Posts: 3,038
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Somewhere in SG Nominated 7 Times in 6 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0 Gender: 
Total SGC$: 5,537.58 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' Quote:
Originally Posted by newcomer How about those car/motorcycle accidents caused by drunk drivers? Should we blame the alcohol or the driver? | Good mention but I think it would be better if you will use this to start another thread?
So how about getting back to the discussion on this rape issue. Quote:
Originally Posted by Arakai blame god for making evil men, blame human for making alcohol and vehicles, n so on | Would you blame God for the creation of humans? I did not get your point here and certainly for the rest of your presumptions. Care to elaborate? Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot Anyway, the blame should be shared by the victim and the rapist, the latter for being a rapist and the former for letting her guard down by getting piss drunk.
If we have campaigns against drunk driving by encouraging personal responsibility for the safety of other road users, why can't we apply the same logic on people taking responsibility for themselves and not become vulnerable to sexual assault by not being so damn drunk in the first place?
Remember people, they choose to drink, they should know where their limits are and not push it till the point where you can keel over and let anyone handle you as they like. | There are people who scheme and use date drugs to get the other party to be intoxicated...then what then? Should they be held culpable for being attractive and viable for the moment? Rapist are basically rapist and will commit this heinous act irregardless if the victim is drunk, drugged or not.
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Last edited by sgelite; 05-10-2008 at 06:12 PM.
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05-10-2008, 09:50 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | New SGClubber
Posts: 15
Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Singapore Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0 Gender: 
Total SGC$: 20.73 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' if u cant drink, then dun drink...
if u die die have to drink, then have a trustworthy fren to take care of u in case u drunk..
it your own responsibility |
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05-10-2008, 11:21 PM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Addicted SGClubber
Posts: 305
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Marine Parade Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0 Gender: 
Total SGC$: 324.21 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' People know that things might happen when they drink too much.
But still, they dun care and drink. What to do? Don't think u can blame it on the drink or others. It's ur own action. So, the only thing u can blame is urself. Be responsible for ur own action.
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05-10-2008, 11:42 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| | a|ex
Posts: 1,185
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Total SGC$: 1,304.38 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' in life there r just too many temptations...
..... |
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05-10-2008, 11:46 PM
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#13 (permalink)
| | EnergiserBunnyWannabe
Posts: 331
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Total SGC$: 371.55 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' what diff does it make if the girl was drunk or not?!
the outcome will be different meh? even if the girl's not drunk I doubt she can fight him off. the average girl la. |
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05-10-2008, 11:56 PM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Experienced SGClubber
Posts: 4,509
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: North Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0 Gender: 
Total SGC$: 7,062.93 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' that tough to decide whose fault meh?
as long as the intention is wrong, he/she is wrong... |
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06-10-2008, 08:04 AM
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#15 (permalink)
| | /B/enign /B/elligerent
Posts: 7,636
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Internet Nominated 30 Times in 21 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0 Gender: 
Total SGC$: 14,199.92 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' Quote:
Originally Posted by sgelite There are people who scheme and use date drugs to get the other party to be intoxicated...then what then? Should they be held culpable for being attractive and viable for the moment? Rapist are basically rapist and will commit this heinous act irregardless if the victim is drunk, drugged or not. | Before you go adding new factors into this discussion, because I do hope that you have noted the lack of the mention of date drugs in my statement above, I would like to know your stand first.
If there are no drugs involved, and the girl in question got herself piss drunk on her own accord hence rendering herself vulnerable etc, is she partially to blame for being raped, in your view.
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06-10-2008, 09:10 AM
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#16 (permalink)
| | Addicted SGClubber
Posts: 614
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: tiong bahru Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0 Gender: 
Total SGC$: 668.80 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' Men are drawn by such sexy clothing, and alcoholic personality. With these 2 traits, they approach you with thought like," maybe i can have sex with this provocative lady here" With that in mind and being trigger off by flirting response from the lady, It's almost like a green light for the man . So both parties got a fair part in the consequences. |
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06-10-2008, 09:22 AM
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#17 (permalink)
| | Addicted SGClubber
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Total SGC$: 629.00 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' hey sgelite
that would be different dude, trying to stay sober is a form of deterrence, your analogy is right on 1 part, that is, rapist are still rapist. On the other spectrum, not so rite.
spose you own a jewellery shop and your only security feature is a triple circles lock that we used in army, and your shop got looted, yes the thieves will still be prosecuted, but do you think you will get the insurance payout?
Last edited by xiao pi gu; 06-10-2008 at 09:38 AM.
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06-10-2008, 09:23 AM
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#18 (permalink)
| | The Queen of Sarcastic
Posts: 7,055
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Total SGC$: 9,748.61 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' that means, for the gals who wear so little, with only a tube top and short short skirt they r asking for men to rape them? what's the meaning of this? its the dirty men themselves what.
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Pls support the below clothes. thks! To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0. |
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06-10-2008, 09:55 AM
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#19 (permalink)
| | Addicted SGClubber
Posts: 614
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Total SGC$: 668.80 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkLady that means, for the gals who wear so little, with only a tube top and short short skirt they r asking for men to rape them? what's the meaning of this? its the dirty men themselves what. | Nope they are not asking for man to rape them, they are just more prone to attract the wrong man and more precaution is needed to prevent any unwanted incidence. For instance, going out with a group of friends, stay sober and avoid going alone late at night etc etc. By wearing provocative clothings, it arouses sexuality excitement as well as imagination in men. there are man who are able to suppress the excitement and pass off as just admiration or at most steal a few more seconds of glance which comprises of the majority of men in s.pore. Those who can't suppress, are imaged as hum sup, or in severe form, rapist. ( with raging hormones )
A little more precaution is just needed for girls who want to wear more sexy. In fact, which guy dun wanna see sexy woman. It adds more color to our world lol |
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06-10-2008, 02:15 PM
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#20 (permalink)
| | Cool SGClubber
Posts: 79
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Total SGC$: 116.00 | Re: The rape debate: 'I was drunk, so was it my fault?' While she may not deserve to be raped, she does need to understand her own role in her responsibility in setting the situation up.
Often, the first line of defence women vocally declare in this issue is to question the logic that just because they wear sexily, does that mean they deserve such treatment. This kind of defence statement is akin to saying, I chose to smoke, does that mean i deserve to get lung cancer and suffer? It speaks of choices and actions without understanding possible consequences.
No they do not deserve such treatment. But they are helping to set themselves up to get into a mess that they cannot get out of which they need to take responsibility for.
We humans are in control of our actions. By virtue of the fact that every action has a consequence, there are some actions that is logically going to create certain likely consequences. If you drink, especially a lot, you will always have a chance of getting drunk. if you drink, especially in clubs/pubs or unknown settings, especially alone, you are always setting yourself up for undesirable circumstances when you are vulnerable like being raped. The fact that the person underestimates the likelihood of such possibility is not an excuse, neither is blaming the perpetuator.
If the person claims she wasn't alone and she was with friends. I am going to say this bluntly. You are responsible for the friends you chose.
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